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Hello
and welcome to today's conversation

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called Hidden No More

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The life and legacy of

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Mary W. Jackson we'll be learning about this

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incredible trailblazer
from a great group of guests

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with us today is the author of Hidden Figures

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Margot Lee Shetterly

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NASA's Chief Historian Bill Barry

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and NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine

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I'm Bettina Inclán with NASA's office of
communications

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on June 24th NASA Administrator
Bridenstine

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announced that the agency's headquarters
building in washington dc

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would be named after Mary W Jackson
NASA's first black female engineer

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today we'll learn more about this
incredible woman her career

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her NASA legacy and what you really means to the agency as we move forward

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throughout the conversation we'll also
be taking questions submitted by NASA employees

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let's begin

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we'll start with NASA

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Administrator Jim Bridenstine

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well thank you so much Bettina and what

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an honor to be here
to celebrate really the life of Mary W

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Jackson and all of her achievements
yes we are we are going to name the

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headquarters building
which until now has not had a name but

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we're gonna name it
after Mary W Jackson and there there are

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so many reasons
um why this is the case uh she was a

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leader
at the agency in fact even before NASA

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was an agency
it was the NACA

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the national advisory committee on
aeronautics

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and of course Mary W Jackson was a
mathematician

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and a computer back then we didn't have
big machines

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what we had were people and
mathematicians that did the computing

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that today we would have
machines do and and Mary W Jackson had

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to overcome
adversity in order to achieve all of her

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monumental achievements but to start
with

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she had to work in a segregated
environment with so many other

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human computers at the time and yet
there were people at NASA who

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recognized her intellect and her
capabilities

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and there were people at nasa who said
wait a second

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maybe you need to be more than a human
computer you should be an engineer

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and she accepted that challenge and not
only did she accept the challenge

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she then had to overcome more adversity
because at the time

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education was segregated in virginia
and so she had to go to a school that

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was segregated and
and and it was whites only and she had

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to encourage everybody to allow her into
the classroom

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and she got accepted into the classroom
overcame adversity

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and became an engineer and as you said
Bettina she was

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the first african-american female
engineer at the agency

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but of course when we decided that we
were going to name the headquarters building

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after Mary W Jackson we also wanted to

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talk to her daughter and her
granddaughter and

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and her relatives and hear what they had
to say

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and and what they said matched perfectly
what i've read

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um what Margot Shetterly has written of
um

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the things that you see in the movie
Hidden Figures

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what they said is that they taught her
her daughter and her granddaughter

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Mary W Jackson taught them that whenever you

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overcome adversity whenever you achieve
whenever you move up

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always always always bring people with
you

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and that's who Mary W Jackson was she
was somebody

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who brought people with her it wasn't
just about her climbing the ranks

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in fact
she gave up opportunity for promotion

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because she was more interested in equal
opportunity she was more interested in

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diversity
and of course she became the head of our

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equal opportunity
and diversity office at the time there

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at the langley research center
but her contributions are you know

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civil rights
her contributions are um inclusion

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and diversity but beyond that her
contributions were enabling

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America to achieve more than it ever
could have achieved

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in space flight and for all those
reasons

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it made great sense to name the
headquarters building

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after Mary W Jackson and of course if
you just

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look her up online you can see all of
her achievements all of her awards

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all of her prizes but i think the prize
that

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is above all others is in 2019
congress the house and the senate voted

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unanimously
to give her a congressional gold medal

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and that was signed into law by the
president of the united states

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and i think it's a perfect example of
how the United States of America really

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needs to overcome a lot of the history
and get us to a new spot where everybody

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is recognized and everybody is in fact
included Bettina thank you for putting

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this together and i'm very excited about
listening to a dialogue

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uh between Margot Shetterly of course who wrote the book

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Hidden Figures and you know now the movie that
we've all seen

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and Bill Barry the NASA historian who of
course

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has been at the agency for years and
knows more about NASA than i'll

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i'll ever know but i'm really looking
forward to this dialogue

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about why it is we decided to name the
NASA headquarters building

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after Mary W Jackson so Bettina thanks
for having me and i'll turn it back over to you

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so thank you so much administrator we're

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now going to
invite Bill Barry and Margot to turn on

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their cameras so we can start this
conversation

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hi Bettina hi Margot

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Hey Bill hi Bettina
hi thank you so much for joining us

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today for this conversation
Hidden No More about the life and legacy

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of Mary W Jackson we just heard from the
administrator he talked

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a lot about about her life and we wanted
to dive into it

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there's a lot of people who haven't read
the book and

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we had some questions Margot you're the
author of this incredible book

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um but that as the administrator
mentioned became a popular movie

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but what drew you to write these stories
about NASA women

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how did you get started on this research?

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uh well it's very interesting i mean i am

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i consider myself to be a product of

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NASA and its history because
my father who's now retired um

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was an atmospheric research scientist at
NASA Langley in Hampton Virginia where i

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grew up so
i you know i knew Mary Jackson i knew

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Catherine Johnson i knew
many of the engineers and the scientists

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that worked with them
all the NASA people because they were

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part of my community and they were part
of my father's work

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so NASA has been a part of my life as
long as i can remember

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um and when i started working on this
book in 2010

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it was the it was an opportunity for me
to look at the history behind those

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people and to really understand in a way
i never had prior to that point uh

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the contributions that they had made to
science and engineering and to NASA and

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its predecessor
um the national advisory committee for

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aeronautics so
um i guess you could say that i was you

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know
eventually this this might have been my

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destiny to write this book given my
background

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and with the book we have this new term
Hidden Figures where did

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where did that come from uh so the
the title Hidden Figures you know when

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you're i think when you're writing
a book or uh trying to come up with

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even a research reporter in any kind of
uh creative endeavor

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coming up with a title that sums it up
is often the hardest part

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and there were many titles that i had
working titles

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as i was going through the process of
working and researching this book

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um Hidden Figures you know honestly it
was one of these things that just

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popped into mind i mean really like
wholly formed

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at one point um but the thing about the
title

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is that it really uh it has it has
layers of meaning you know it really

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represented the fact
that the women were

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hidden away in their own separate office
uh the fact that the figures the numbers

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you know we see the result that we
we don't often see the numbers that go

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into it
um and so not just those women but the

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entire
work of the engineers and that whole

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team behind these spectacular
technological advancement all that work

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was also hidden you know so there were
all these layers of meaning

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that once that title came to
the four you know i thought wow that's

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everything that i wanted to say about
this in two words

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Bill maybe you
and that is fantastic maybe Bill you can

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give us some more context on
um these hidden figures we're talking

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about the women of west computing
why were they called human computers you

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know who were these women and how did
this come to be

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uh well this all traces back to the
early part of the 20th century

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NACA engineers got tired of doing all
the math all the time

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and they said we need some help here to
reduce all the data

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from these wind tunnel tests and and
those sorts of things

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so um the NACA tried an experiment in
mid-30s

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you know they bring women in to do the
sort of the grunt computing work

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and as it turns out the experiment was a
huge success they were

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um you know we have actually have a
letter from

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the NACA where they responded to a
request from industry about how did

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women computers
you know how does this experiment years

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work out and they went back and said
you know not only are the women you know

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they're faster they're more accurate
they get more

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done in the morning than the engineers
could get done in the whole day

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and and we don't have to pay them as
much right because

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they're women and everything's woman's
work uh so computing became

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a woman's work sort of um
sub-engineering specialty that uh that

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was able to be done
and the NACA relied on women in in the

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30s and into the 40s
during the war world war ii

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uh in the NACA like everybody else was
short-staffed because

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so many of the you know people were off
at war itself um

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and uh in desperation to find more uh
mathematicians to do the work then the

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calculating work for them um they
actually started tapping the

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african-american community and
they had a great pool of folks out there

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you know people who were
didn't have an opportunity to to

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exercise the skills that they had in
in a larger context other than largely

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in the african-american segregated
school system

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but once the NACA touched into that that
tap review they found a

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an incredibly talented pool and brought
in a bunch of them so

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um but of course it's Hampton Virginia
1940s everything's still segregated in

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fact it's not just
segregated because that's the way it is

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it's segregated because that's the law
in virginia so you wind up with this

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separate
computing unit there and you have the

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you know the white woman computers
and then because of where the facility

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was built where they were
they were expanding the langley facility

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and they built a unit out to the west of
the

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the main campus uh which is now what's
now langley research center

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uh but the west computing unit was named
that because that just happened to be

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the location where they were
i think i get all that right margot

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absolutely check check check check so
Bill yeah it's really great that you say

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that and as you were
talking about the the buildings i

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actually
can visualize in my mind the floor plans

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you know one of the things that was so
great for me doing the research for this

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book
was all of the incredible research and

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all of the artifacts that that you guys
had saved and had scanned and that i

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found in the NASA
history office and headquarters and that

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Mary Gainer
had had in the the langley research

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center
um so it's so funny as you're you're

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recounting the history
i'm actually going through my mind and

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seeing all of the
the raw documents that that made up this story

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i became chief of story about the time
you started working on the book and and

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i remember wandering into the archive
from time to time and seeing seeing you

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at work there and thinking
i wonder what she's doing

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little than i know that how important your work
would be in the years to come

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yeah incredibly important we now have
multiple facilities named after are

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these hidden figures that you wrote
about in your book

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and as the administrator mentioned we
said in the opening um statements

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NASA headquarters is now called Mary W
Jackson

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but can you tell us more

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who was Mary W Jackson?

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so Mary Jackson you know i think it's it
is so

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fitting that this building is named
after Mary Jackson um

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Mary uh her family the Winston family of
the

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W of her name um they were from Hampton Virginia

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uh her father and her mother actually
met when they were college students

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in the late 1890s in Hampton in
Hampton what was then called Hampton

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Institute um Mary
and her siblings all went to Hampton

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university so she really was a part of
this community like a very fundamental

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part of this um this community that that
grew up in the shadow of the civil war

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and then reconstruction
um so Mary worked at the

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uh the USO the united service
organization

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you know uh during world war ii she was
a teacher

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and then she came to uh to NASA after a
very short stint at Fort Monroe

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as a secretary another military
institution in Hampton

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um but Mary had been very good at math
and science

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um you know this was um that was her her
field of study

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when she was in college and she came in
as a computer she was working for

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Dorothy Vaughan in the then segregated
west area computing unit

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um and then she rotated into um
a work group called the four foot by four

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foot supersonic pressure tunnel this was
one of the wind tunnels

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um which was sort of the bread and
butter of the work at the at

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a part of the work anyway at the uh the
langley laboratory it was then called

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and um moving into that group really
kicked off her career

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and she worked for a senior engineer
a guy named Kazimierz Czarneki um who

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you know we've seen the dramatization in
the movie

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uh and you know the movie always changes
a little bit but the core of that story

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is absolutely true
um Czarneki in in real life uh

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saw her engineering talent and said
listen

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staying in the computing pool is fine
but i think you'd make a great engineer

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and um that proved to be absolutely true
the two of them uh he was sort of first

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her mentor
and then they became research partners

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and they did quite a few
uh authored quite a few research

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reports over the years
principally on um aircraft supersonic

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aircraft
um that they would you know look at the

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protrusion
of rivets and how did that change the

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efficiency of the aircraft as it
was flying things like that um so Mary

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was an engineer
as we know NASA is an engineering

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organization so she was a real fit for
that

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um and then as as you mentioned Mary at
the end of her career

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as the administrator mentioned um took
a a demotion in order to go into um

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into human resources and really remove
barriers for other women of all

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backgrounds she was really really
committed to making sure that all

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people had a chance an equal chance at
moving up so

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um you know and that that's that is i
think a real testament to the person

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that she was
that uh she was a humanitarian she was

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always somebody who was
trying to gather different kinds of

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people around her
and get the talents of all of those

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people
together in order to advance what she

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thought was
was her mission part of which was NASA's

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mission
science and engineering and part of

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which was a larger humanitarian mission
and i think that she was a true

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humanitarian spirit

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that is fantastic so a lot of us
know this story because of the movie

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movie in the movie Hidden Figures
Janelle Monae plays Mary W Jackson

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and how the movie was written
was that an accurate portrayal of Mary

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you've already pointed one
little change you know we know these

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movies are entertaining they're not
exactly documentaries

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but i'd love to hear you know Margot
from you like where

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you thought it was accurate and Bill if
you can tell us like

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what is NASA's role in making sure that
these are historically supported movies

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all right

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why don't you go ahead and start Margot

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uh well you know Bill and i

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we we met because you know through this
process of

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this movie coming together and um so i
will have you know we've lots of short

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stories and great memories about that
but you know it was very interesting to

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see this process
of having the uh the book become

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a film and i would say that although
there were

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things facts that were changed you know
the timelines were different

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the um you know some of the things about
the characters and the names were

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changed
but the thing that i i really felt and i

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believe this was true for the
for you know for NASA and for the

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families
is that the movie was true you know and

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i think there's
there's a slight difference between

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truth and fact and story
but there was there was so much truth

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and um
understanding of the conditions that the

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women were working
in the situation the geopolitical

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situation at the time
um the character of each of the

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individual women
um and and that i was really impressed

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at how the filmmakers
were very committed to making sure that

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the truth
of that came through so that even as you

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you know you kind of look at the apple
and

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of the book and the orange of the film
you say well that's an apple and that's

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an orange um
that when you when you take both of them

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together
you still did get the truth of those

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women and that story
um and you know and Bill i mean bill

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just you know
you did so much like detailed detailed

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research for that movie
well i i think we shared the duty with a

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lot of folks at NASA because the
the production team particularly the

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director Ted Melfi was
he was completely fanatical about trying

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to get you know tell the true story
uh and also tell an entertaining

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story that would you know make a
powerful movie which which it

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did a great job with um but also to get
as many of the details

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exactly correct as it could and you know
some of the things

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uh you know or get altered like uh you
know kaz

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you know Czarneki's name uh in his
hometown he wasn't from Europe he

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00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,360
actually
grew up in new Bedford Massachusetts for

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example but you know
little things like that but but you know

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the fundamental things i think that's
Margot pointed out are the key you know

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it's
it it may be that it's an apple and an

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orange sort of thing but
the orange of the movie tastes a lot

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like that an apple i think i mean
it really tells you something true about

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about what happened at the time
um but yeah there are there are a lot of

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things
a lot and a lot of people at NASA who

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00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,320
helped out the photo lab
the video archive uh the folks in

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00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,640
procurement who helped actually
one of the things in the back drop of

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00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,280
the scene uh there's a
painting of airplanes that was actually

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00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,280
at langley research center
and was being accessed and in the

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00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,600
procurement office there actually
actually managed to inter

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intercept that on its way out the door
and had to loan it to the movie studio

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so they could put it in the background
it appears there's a sort of toss away

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thing in the background of a couple of
scenes

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00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,480
but uh but it was something that
actually would have been in the

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background
uh during um things that happened at

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00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:46,960
langley research center at the time so
so they're really fanatical about about

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00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,080
doing that stuff but yeah they want to
tell a good story too

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00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,000
um so for example this is the scene
where Mary Jackson

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00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,120
uh gets her she's walking through the
wind tunnel and she gets her her

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00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,320
high heel cut into the great of the
floor and i

320
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,520
argued like crazy with Ted Melfi about
that as a ted

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00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,799
you know first of all nobody walks to
their office

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00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,960
through a wind tunnel right that's not a
corridor right and even if you were

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00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,240
nobody in their right mind be wearing
high heels because it's

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00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,280
just don't do that sort of stuff you
know anybody knows anything about wind

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00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,600
tunnels is going to know that's not
really going to happen

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00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,200
and Ted paused for a second and he goes
yeah he goes but how many people know

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00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,919
anything about wind tunnels beside you
people who work at NASA

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00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:28,960
i said well he goes i'm telling you this
is going to make a great scene people

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00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,320
will remember that scene
and guess what we all remember that

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00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,919
scene right so he was right they did a
great job telling a good story

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but also getting at the fundamental
truth of what things were

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and i think they did a particularly nice
job with with Mary W Jackson in terms of

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um
getting to her you know her real

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character and showing you know
both the grit of her personality and her

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,480
stick-to-itiveness
but also um the humanitarian side

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and and you know how she you know cared
for her family and

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and juggled all those things and managed
to make things better for all of us

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00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,039
um one of the questions we got from
employees is when researching

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00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,960
for your book did you come across any
other african-american hidden figures

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women or men worth noting?

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00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,960
yeah you know one of the real challenges

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00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,320
particularly in the beginning of the
book is that there were so many

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00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,600
interesting people uh that it was
it was a real challenge not to want to

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tell every single
everyone's story um and you know they

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00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,000
were
figuring out how all of these people had

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come to NASA and the work that they did
particularly during that golden age

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of um of the Mercury missions and Gemini
and Apollo

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00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,840
uh it was really hard to to sort of hear
it down but there were so many people um

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there was Jim Williams who was an
african-american

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engineer um one of the the early uh
black men who had been hired at the

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langley research center
um there was Dorothy Hoover very very

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interesting black woman
um who had also come in 1943 during this

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00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,679
this push during world war
ii um had become was promoted to

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00:23:07,679 --> 00:23:11,760
a research scientist so her title was
actually research scientist she really

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00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,520
did move
up um out of the computing pool and was

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00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,600
in this
very interesting um theoretical

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kind of um you know very mathematical
theoretically mathematically oriented

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group um and then
left went back started doing some

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graduate study
um and eventually ended up at

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Goddard Research Center
so she was a really fascinating person

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um and then you know i would just say
scoping back from that

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beyond simply you know the
african-american

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people in the story there were so many
women

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and men from all backgrounds and you
know what i didn't know was

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00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:55,600
how many people had come from abroad
international people who were working

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there at the the langley research center
people who had come

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from Germany and Poland and
Asia um you know there were people who

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00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,919
had come from all over the united states
who were converging

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00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:14,159
on what was a war boom town at the time
world war ii um you know and and i think

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00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:16,480
that
you know again this this sort of the

371
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,840
metaphor of or
you know the the concept of hidden

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00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,679
figures and really
understanding and looking and seeing how

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each of these people
whose names i i you know some of their

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00:24:27,919 --> 00:24:32,080
names i had known
others i didn't um certainly the details

375
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,600
of their work i really didn't know until
i started doing this

376
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,279
and to see how all of these different
people came together

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you know very different circumstances
bringing them together to this one place

378
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and um coming together to achieve this
mission

379
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,200
over time you know that that culminated
in something

380
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,120
like the moon landing in 1969 and seeing
all of the people

381
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:59,200
and the talent required to get there and
to

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00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,679
having the privilege of seeing all of
that from the sort of behind the scenes

383
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:08,320
and knowing um their names at this point
and knowing what they contributed to

384
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,840
to science into our history

385
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,000
there are so many great stories about uh
people that

386
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,840
worked at NASA in the past that's uh you
know i wish we had

387
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,120
a thousand historians to tell all these
stories but uh you know unfortunately

388
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,120
we've got you know some great ones like
Margot here who been able to unearth

389
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,840
these things and tell these stories for
us it's been

390
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,760
it's a real privilege to have uh have
you apply that kind of talent to

391
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,159
the this story for us i'm just so
appreciative

392
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:42,240
yeah well it's a quirky group of people
you know i knew that growing up

393
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,240
and um you know when you when you start
looking back into the history and you

394
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,200
hear the stories about
um you know the one chief uh engineer in

395
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,320
charge who was there briefly
who uh tried to kind of

396
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,120
create a system where he could drive his
car and read a book at the same time

397
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,360
no that that you see that and you're
like you understand a little bit about

398
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,960
the dna of the organization

399
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,159
well i really enjoyed reading your book
um

400
00:26:12,159 --> 00:26:16,880
and and especially as a NASA employee i
became even more proud

401
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,159
of our history um of and how much we
have accomplished as a team as an agency

402
00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:25,440
and
um one of the questions that we got was

403
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,919
was there
anything that you found in your research

404
00:26:27,919 --> 00:26:30,459
that you did not portray
in the movie or the book?

405
00:26:30,459 --> 00:26:34,720
and what came to mind i'm sure you have a lot was when we were i was reading your book in the

406
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,880
epilogue
you talk about the second part of Mary W

407
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,000
Jackson's
life and that you wish you could have

408
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,279
talked more
about that can you tell us more because

409
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:48,640
i think it's in especially as we've
named this building in her honor

410
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,840
that plays a big part in her the bigger
part of her legacy

411
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,880
absolutely true um and and i think you
know

412
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,240
it is it makes so much sense given
mary's long

413
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,240
career at NASA and the fact that she
spent

414
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,720
um the the time at the laboratory when
it was part of the NACA

415
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,559
she was there for NASA in the golden
years though the entire push through Apollo

416
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:17,760
and then she had this very kind of

417
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,120
institutional
administrative affiliation with the

418
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,640
agency at the the administrative level
the federal level

419
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,520
and really trying to
uh get the most out of the assets you

420
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,919
know the assets
in a knowledge based company

421
00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:37,120
that we we know today right this is what
drives our economy

422
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:41,200
are the people you need talented people
you need to liberate them to do the best

423
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,559
work
um you need to uh figure out ways for

424
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:48,559
them to work together
and that was something that Mary Jackson

425
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,320
in addition to being a gifted engineer
really had that understanding of

426
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,039
organizational dynamics
and and people and so that section the

427
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:01,200
epilogue in the book
uh discussing this decision that she

428
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,600
made at the end of her career
after uh Kazimierz Czarnecki retired and he

429
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,880
really was this
fundamental research partner for many

430
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,440
years she then made the decision to go
into human resources to take

431
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:19,120
a step back to go from a gs12 to a gs11
in order to take this job even as she

432
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:23,760
had worked very hard to get promoted
as an engineer over the course of those

433
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,480
years she made that decision
and then she really uh became a part of

434
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,279
the
institutional structure in the

435
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:35,279
institutional memory not just the
engineering part but the institutional

436
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:41,919
part of of NASA um and she was
in during that time the federal women's

437
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:46,320
program manager her job really was to
take a look at the the career prospects

438
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,799
for women in the
the organization at the time and

439
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:55,600
do what she could with her team to
remove barriers so that people

440
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:02,640
like for example Dr Christine Darden um
who became um very very well known

441
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:10,000
uh supersonic aeronautical engineer
so that she could do her best work so um

442
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,679
at one point when i was writing the book
i really did have this idea that i would

443
00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:16,960
continue it
all the way through to like you know

444
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,640
1980 and 1983 so we could actually
see the result which was Christine Darden

445
00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:26,320
you know
kind of uh as a complete expression of

446
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,480
these early women
um but but you know you you kind of have

447
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,720
to consider people's attention spans
when you write a book as well

448
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:40,960
and i made it an epilogue but
that part of Mary W Jackson's life

449
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,360
um i think is is an important one and so
just because it's not

450
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,120
shown in detail in the book the way the
earlier part is

451
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,120
doesn't mean that i think it is any less
important and it really does

452
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,960
speak to her character and to her
commitment to this this

453
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,080
this uh this institution that she truly
loved

454
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:05,679
and Bill do you have anything to add i
know that she even spent some time at

455
00:30:05,679 --> 00:30:10,080
headquarters
doing some training um for this?

456
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,120
yeah she she of course came to
headquarters for training it because you

457
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,679
know she's shifting from being an
engineer to being a

458
00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:20,399
you know hr person and while some
engineers might think well that's easy

459
00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:24,720
you know you know everybody has their
specialty and you can't just you know

460
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,240
take off one hat one day and put on the
other one the next day when you can and

461
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240
some people do it better than others
maybe but

462
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,520
but you can't headquarters and get some
training in the hr thing and then do

463
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,919
this
um one of the the things you know

464
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:40,240
context-wise to think about it
it's kind of hard to imagine maybe now

465
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,760
uh in
in you know 2020 but uh you know back in

466
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,880
this
in the 70s uh the women's movement had

467
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,760
been
at work there and and that was a really

468
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,360
important issue
and and you know people like Mary

469
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,720
jackson were breaking glass ceilings but
they kept running into more ceilings

470
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,559
above
um and so um that was a critical time

471
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:03,919
for
NASA to face the music on this the issue

472
00:31:03,919 --> 00:31:06,720
of
you know women's rights uh and and we

473
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,679
didn't do a very good job of it in the
60s

474
00:31:09,679 --> 00:31:13,039
uh you know it got better over time but
one of the

475
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:17,440
things to me about uh about Mary's
decision to do that is that

476
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,200
it was a is a critical thing that helped
the agency

477
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,519
you know embody the culture that we all
aspire to

478
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,960
and what in new ways that you know to
face the new environment uh

479
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,000
and that was an environment where you
know we really need to be inclusive

480
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
of women uh who's you know 50 percent of
the human population that we're

481
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,919
basically ignoring uh their talents
except in exceptional cases

482
00:31:39,919 --> 00:31:43,039
maybe but we needed to make it possible
for that to happen

483
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:46,880
and so you know her her commitment to
that uh i think is supposedly

484
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,559
a sign of her commitment to you know
humanity in general but also

485
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:55,519
specifically to the you know to nasa and
and in our future and so that's that's

486
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,120
one of the reasons i really love the
fact that we named the building after

487
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,159
one of the things that we got is like
what advice do you think

488
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,980
Mary W Jackson would give to current and
future NASA leaders if she was still living today?

489
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:09,840
that's a good question

490
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,220
Margot you want to take a shot at that

491
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:14,080
uh that is a good question

492
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,159
because i think she was somebody who had
a lot of good advice

493
00:32:18,159 --> 00:32:24,880
um you know the the thing that
i would say is uh

494
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,240
Mary Jackson so you know i will just say
that i grew up

495
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,159
in this community of NASA people where
there were a lot of engineers and

496
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:35,279
scientists
and people really did have that spirit

497
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:38,320
from you know the 60s and 70s and i
guess

498
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,000
kind of on into the 80s um i don't know
if you want to call

499
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,120
it like the kind of the Star Trek spirit
you know this like

500
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,880
sense of adventure of science being so
important

501
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,919
um of science and humanity being
you know two parts of the same thing you

502
00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:58,320
know this exploring spirit
to boldly go where no man has gone

503
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,519
before and and for the benefit of
humanity you know so i

504
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:04,559
really grew up in that kind of an
environment

505
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:09,600
and Mary Jackson had that you know my
father has that all of these you know

506
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,080
Christine Darden
they really had that it was a part of

507
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,240
who they were and so from the time we
were little kids

508
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,720
these NASA people were always trying to
convince us that the very best thing

509
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,080
that we could do with our talents
was to become a scientist or to become

510
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,320
an engineer and
um you know i you know my dad didn't get

511
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440
engineer out of me but i do have you
know one of my sisters a

512
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,720
a cancer researcher so he did get one
scientist

513
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,960
out of the lot but um you know i think
that

514
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:46,159
that having the the current generation
of NASA people reach down

515
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:52,399
to these kids today and say this is
amazing work it's exciting work it is

516
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:56,799
cool work um you know and because we're
always talking about the

517
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:00,640
the the stem workforce of the the
president and of the future and where is

518
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,440
the talent going to come from
well if you're looking at kids in

519
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,360
college it's it's kind of too late
i think you know like you really have to

520
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,599
start cultivating that talent
uh when they're very young and and one

521
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:17,280
of the real gifts of my childhood
is that you know we got exposure to that

522
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,879
to science to um the wonder of it
not just the technical part of it but

523
00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:27,200
the wonder of it
very very young and so i think Mary Jackson

524
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,480
who is always you know creating after

525
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,480
school programs for kids
and having them build wind tunnels you

526
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,280
know things like that
it's amazing it really has an impact and

527
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,440
i think you know we got a lot of
engineers and scientists out of that

528
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,200
generation
because of people like Mary Jackson so i

529
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,079
would say that
uh one of her bits of advice would be to

530
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:57,599
follow in her footsteps and evangelize
for science and technology and

531
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,420
engineering
because that is also part of being a humanitarian

532
00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:05,680
that is fantastic as we talk more about

533
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,119
Mary W Jackson's legacy i'd like to
invite the administrators to join us

534
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:13,839
back into the conversation
Jim hi

535
00:35:13,839 --> 00:35:17,599
yeah um so you Margot in that last
question

536
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:21,040
you answered our one of the questions
it's very similar

537
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,880
we actually got a question from a fifth
grader at Charles Barrett Elementary

538
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,200
school
who um i know that you know children

539
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,680
were very important to Mary W Jackson
spent three decades as a girl scouts

540
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,680
um troop leader so the question and i
think you answered is like what advice

541
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,839
would you give today to young black
girls who

542
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:44,400
are interested in working at NASA um and
what do you think about their their work

543
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,520
and Hidden Figures i know um you kind of
answered i don't know if there's

544
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,240
anything else
Margot i know Jim you care a lot about

545
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,040
stem you talk a lot about things for
students

546
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,960
um you know i love answers from from all
of you

547
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,480
on how do we engage this young
generation how do we

548
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,320
especially include more um young black
girls

549
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,400
boys minority children to make so
they're the future of NASA and they

550
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,839
really represent what Mary W Jackson
stood for

551
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:18,800
well i think that's one of the reasons
why you know NASA made the bet on

552
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,880
on the movie you know because we
expended a fair amount of resources on

553
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,560
on you know helping out with research in
the movie and then you know

554
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,320
doing other so you know events
associated with the movie

555
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,599
um because we wanted to build that
workforce we need to get us to the moon

556
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:36,320
and mars
you know they're not going to appear out

557
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,280
of nowhere and in this
in this story uh really speaks to

558
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,400
i think uh people with all kinds of
circumstances that

559
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,400
you can overcome you know difficult
barriers yet it's not going to be easy

560
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,520
necessarily
but there are you know you can if you

561
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,720
focus on the energy
your energy into into doing it you do

562
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,720
the things you need to do to prepare
yourself

563
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,800
you can you can be a part of this team
and and make a difference and make the

564
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,240
world a better place
uh and also get us to the Moon and Mars

565
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,480
and so
i think there's a there's a pretty good

566
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,480
bet on our part to try and build our
future workforce by doing this

567
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,920
as well as the you know familiarize our
way with the past so that

568
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,359
you know it not only inspires kids but
it also inspires us adults

569
00:37:17,359 --> 00:37:22,160
that we would see that message um out
there and that you know um you know we

570
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,200
can all make the world a better place
but we've got to stay focused on

571
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,359
on the important values of our our lives
and build the culture we need to

572
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:33,359
to to build a workforce that that'll
work together well

573
00:37:33,359 --> 00:37:37,119
and does that sort of Star Trek
mentality thing of getting us ahead

574
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:42,800
in the world and bring us to a future
that we all are looking forward to

575
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,160
i i think that's i think that's right
Bill and um

576
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,800
i would just say one of the things we
need to do at NASA every day

577
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,680
is build a workforce that
is open that is welcoming

578
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:03,119
that is inclusive and diverse
and let people know that NASA is a very

579
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:06,320
safe place to
come and work and do extraordinary

580
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,079
things
as Bill said it's not easy uh what we do

581
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:14,400
at nasa is very difficult and
and we see that over and over in in

582
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,800
history
but at the same time there are barriers

583
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,520
but those barriers cannot be
based on any kind of discrimination

584
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560
based on any kind
and when i say discrimination i'm

585
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,440
talking about any kind of discrimination
racial discrimination we have to

586
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,320
eliminate those kind of obstacles so
that somebody

587
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,920
if there is a young african-american
child that says

588
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,240
man one day i want to be one of those
astronauts that they don't feel like

589
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,920
maybe they shouldn't they feel like in
fact they should

590
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,720
and i think we as an agency and we we do
a good job make no mistake but we can do

591
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,440
more
to make sure that everybody feels

592
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,880
included and everybody feels like
when they join NASA they're going to

593
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,200
have opportunities to excel
and be promoted and all of those kind of things

594
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:08,480
and you know i i would just uh i would
just

595
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,880
piggyback on what the administrator said
and you know the thing about

596
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,760
the thing about NASA and the thing about
NASA's missions and the thing about

597
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,160
you know uh you know when when President
Kennedy decided that NASA

598
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,640
and the america was gonna go to the Moon
he said you know we choose to do these

599
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,040
things
not because they're easy but because

600
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,000
they are hard
you know and and that is something that

601
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,160
i think we really have to
remember and say to these kids you know

602
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,599
the reason why you're doing this and the
reason why it means so much

603
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:43,599
and why it is so meaningful and
enjoyable isn't because it's easy it's

604
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:47,040
because it's hard
you know that is a part of it and if

605
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,480
it's hard
that's okay that is that is a part of it

606
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,560
you know you
look at what Mary Jackson did Mary W

607
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,960
Jackson look at what Katherine Johnson
did

608
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,800
look at what all those engineers and
scientists and mathematicians did over

609
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,200
the years
and you can do it too it was hard for

610
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,760
them too you know this this is not easy
work this is challenging work

611
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,680
um but you are up to the task it will be
hard

612
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,839
but that's a part of it and it is so
rewarding it's beautiful work it's

613
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:22,240
interesting work um and so i think that
you know that to me um that was always a

614
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,480
part of the ethos of NASA
that i love so much and my father kind

615
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,160
of gave that
to to me and my siblings and you know

616
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,599
Christine Darden all these people it was
a very disciplined

617
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:36,800
approach to that work you didn't you
didn't get up from the table

618
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,920
until after the last calculus problem
was done

619
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,680
but there were rewards for that and um i
think that

620
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,680
teaching the kids that from a very early
age probably means that

621
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,280
you know 20 years from now there's
there's an entirely new

622
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:57,760
pipeline of engineers ready to carry out
NASA's next mission

623
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,079
there's so many questions i want to ask
but i know that we're

624
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:07,359
we're trying to wrap up um but you know
i think there's a lot of people who are

625
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:10,000
really proud of everything that is going
on

626
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,920
but also want to continue to represent
and recognize the work of Hidden Figures

627
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,240
what are we doing as an agency
um or what can we do with society to

628
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:24,400
make sure that we know
more um about Hidden Figures recognize

629
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,800
them and also recognize other hidden
figures

630
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,480
that maybe weren't included in this book?
so um

631
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:37,440
any thoughts from from any of you
sure i'll i'll go ahead and start um so

632
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,040
the
the agency as as you mentioned um

633
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,720
we want we want to be inclusive we want
people from

634
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,240
all over the nation different
backgrounds different ethnicities

635
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,760
to join us in this bold vision of going
to the Moon and on to Mars and if

636
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,000
if we do it right we will inspire the
next generation to go into the stem

637
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,280
fields and
our country and in fact humanity will

638
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,200
will in fact
uh be be made better off so those are

639
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,640
the things that we work on
just you know you asked um what what are

640
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,200
we doing today
um you know when when we look at um

641
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,000
some of the recent events that we've
seen um we we've been taking action

642
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,599
and Bettina you know this day in and day
out we're looking at things that we can

643
00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:24,720
do
uh to make sure people do feel included

644
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:29,119
to to start though i want to be clear
the the amazing NASA workforce has has

645
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:32,800
really
it does a really amazing job and and

646
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,800
because of that
um you know we're hopeful that the the

647
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,800
glass ceilings that were broken
uh by the hidden figures whether it was

648
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,640
Dorothy Vaughn or
Mary W Jackson Catherine Johnson

649
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,040
Christine Darden
that that those ceilings are no longer

650
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,800
the barriers
um but the barriers are only what it is

651
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,119
you can achieve
using using your talents and your mind

652
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:01,119
and and and all of us being able to work
in an inclusive environment

653
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:04,560
so one of the first things we did um
when you know

654
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,119
we started seeing these challenges from
you know the the George Floyd incident

655
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:13,839
the police brutality um you know the the
protests

656
00:43:13,839 --> 00:43:20,079
the civil unrest uh i asked our
our office of chief of um

657
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:24,800
human capital the the office of the
chief human capital officer if you will

658
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,720
um i asked her and
our equal opportunity office to come

659
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,520
together
and look at all of the things that we do

660
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,839
as an agency
to bring people in how do we recruit how

661
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:41,359
do we
train um how do we promote

662
00:43:41,359 --> 00:43:44,960
and look at the things that we do and
and it's

663
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,400
just so everybody is aware the the NASA
workforce does a great job

664
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,680
um you know we have been you know told
over and over again

665
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,079
by the office of personnel management
they do a big workforce

666
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:03,200
survey and NASA is is the number one
agency in the federal government as far

667
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,160
as
the best place to work NASA has the

668
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,720
highest ratings on inclusiveness
so look i want to be clear NASA does an

669
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,520
amazing job
but what we want to do is we want to

670
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,520
always be striving for more so what are
the things that we're missing and how do

671
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,000
we
how do we do even better than we're

672
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,160
doing so i asked i asked
our organizations that are involved in

673
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,800
these activities to to report back to me
on

674
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,720
on what we can do second thing we did is
i asked we need to put together a

675
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,160
strategic plan
and that strategic plan for the agency

676
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,960
of course is longer term
but what that strategic plan includes is

677
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,359
a lot of
feedback from the workforce so we're

678
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:47,359
doing dialogues at the centers all
across the agency

679
00:44:47,359 --> 00:44:51,520
to get what what are the things that the
workforce feels like we could do better

680
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,280
from a diversity and inclusion
perspective so that we can actually put

681
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,119
together
actionable items um for for this

682
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:04,960
um for this uh for this time
the other thing um you know that we did

683
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,000
the
the Deputy NASA Administrator Jim Morhard

684
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,200
and i
uh we put together um we put together a

685
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,160
contract if you will
basically uh we signed a document that

686
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,880
says
that we are 100 committed to making nasa

687
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,440
the absolute best
place for diversity and inclusion

688
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,200
and that we will be free of
discrimination and retaliation

689
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,839
and any kind of harassment and we've
asked that all of our leaders whether

690
00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:39,599
you're an associate administrator or a
center director

691
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:44,400
or another leader we're asking all of
our leaders to sign on to this

692
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,160
so that we can absolutely see the
commitment so we're going to be getting

693
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,000
a lot of feedback
in the coming months um and then we're

694
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,040
going to take
actionable steps um to improve the

695
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,119
agency
again i want to be clear because i know

696
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,319
how hard people work our agency is a
great place to work

697
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:04,160
but we always want to be striving to do
more and that's what we're doing

698
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,079
um so those are those are just some of
the things we're going to get the

699
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:10,960
feedback we're going to take the
appropriate steps

700
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,680
um but it's also true and i'll just make
this announcement right here Bettina

701
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,480
um you know we have we have our core
values

702
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,960
you know a lot of agencies and and and
corporates have core values

703
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,000
uh i come from the navy when i was in
the navy it was honor

704
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,640
courage and commitment well with NASA
we've got safety teamwork integrity

705
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,599
excellence and within teamwork which is
an important core value we had

706
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:41,359
diversity and inclusion inside of
teamwork

707
00:46:41,359 --> 00:46:44,880
but based on some of the conversations
and dialogues that have been happening

708
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,400
across the agency
we wanted to separate that out and make

709
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,599
it you know an an
independent um core value

710
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:56,960
which is inclusion we're going to make
inclusion

711
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,000
an independent core value so now there's
five core values

712
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,400
um and and and yes teamwork and
inclusion i mean they go hand in hand

713
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,599
but i think it's important that what we
do

714
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:14,160
actually signals you know the the things
that need to be done to make NASA a

715
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,440
better place and so
you asked what we're doing i know i just

716
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,119
talked a lot but um obviously this is
important to the agency

717
00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:24,720
a lot of people doing great work and we
want to strive

718
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:28,160
every day to to be better Bettina and so
those are the things that we're working

719
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,559
on
that's fantastic um Jim i think you know

720
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:35,520
i think a lot of people would agree that
and

721
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,480
that one of the key tenants of Mary W
Jackson is inclusiveness is she is

722
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,400
someone who dedicated a career to be
incredibly inclusive

723
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,440
um and not to put you on the spot Margot
but

724
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,720
you know how do we the administrator
just

725
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:54,240
outline a bunch of stuff uh how we can
continue to live

726
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:57,520
in Mary W Jackson's legacy and make it
real

727
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,960
on a day-to-day basis what are your
thoughts on this and how do we continue

728
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,359
to live up to the standards
set by Mary W Jackson and and these

729
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,500
other um
and these other incredible figures in NASA's history

730
00:48:10,060 --> 00:48:12,700
i i think that's a really good question

731
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:15,359
you know one of the things that really
struck me

732
00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:22,000
about Mary W Jackson and and her life
and her career is that she never

733
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,599
she never felt that there was a
difference that was so

734
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:29,200
great that she could not bridge it with
someone else

735
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,839
she always assumed that she had more in
common with someone even despite

736
00:48:33,839 --> 00:48:36,079
whatever
the difference is in background or

737
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,520
gender or race or whatever
she always assumed that she was able to

738
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,240
find some commonality
and then once she did that to

739
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:48,720
work together with that person whether
it was um finding

740
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:53,200
um some kids that in the neighborhood
and converting them to this

741
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,240
you know uh passion for engineering and
science and and you know finding that

742
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:03,760
inside of them and connecting there
or um working with the people around her

743
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,520
and getting them
to say hey i'm gonna reach back and and

744
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,680
bring these kids into the office and
commit to mentoring them or tutoring

745
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,559
them you know she was always trying to
to build the bridges so that everybody

746
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:19,760
could then move
in in the same direction on whatever the

747
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,880
mission was
and i think that's something that um i

748
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,520
think that is a
a wonderful core value and uh

749
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:32,880
something that um you know when i think
okay what what would Mary Jackson do

750
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,480
here what would she
say about this situation you know she

751
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,119
really was always trying to extend
herself

752
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:43,440
and to build those bridges and to find
that common ground and so i think that

753
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,640
is something
um it's a core part of teamwork it's a

754
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,839
core part of inclusion
and um it is one of Mary W Jackson's

755
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:55,520
fundamental values that's so i i would
say remembering that

756
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,359
is is a good way to pave the way to the
future

757
00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:03,359
so thank you so much everyone for this
wonderful conversation

758
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:06,400
we're going to wrap it up and i'm going
to turn it over to the administrator

759
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:12,400
for some closing remarks well thank you
Bettina for setting this up

760
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,599
and Margot Shetterly thank you for your
leadership

761
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:19,440
and taking what used to be hidden
figures and

762
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:25,040
and making them now no longer hidden
and for Bill Barry and all of the the

763
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:30,000
great work you've done at NASA as far as
being a historian and and helping tell

764
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,480
these incredible stories of our
of our history um i just want to thank

765
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,319
everybody for this
really amazing dialogue and as an agency

766
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:40,720
um
as as i said earlier we're going to

767
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,880
continue working
to make this agency the most inclusive

768
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,640
um
and diverse and value everybody's input

769
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,440
and make it an agency that is free of
any kind of discrimination including

770
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,720
racial discrimination
and an agency that that is safer and

771
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:02,240
better
because of the input of all of our great

772
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,800
employees and again we're going to
continue to work

773
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,480
on how we bring in people in a more
inclusive way how we

774
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,240
how we grow them within the agency and
promote them

775
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:15,200
so there's there's really a bright
future here and i want to be really

776
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,440
clear
that future is embedded in the person of

777
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,480
Mary W Jackson and this is why we named the

778
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:27,680
headquarters after her
an amazing not so longer hidden figure

779
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,240
she now um has the name of the NASA